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The Lessons From CA50
Despite the long odds, Democrats had high hopes for electing Francine Busby over Brian Bilbray in CA-50. But we didn't win, and we need to learn some lessons if we want to take the House and the Senate in November. Here are three lessons we need to learn:
1. We need a winning message about real change on the issues Americans care about most.
Francine Busby's core message was about corruption and ethics reform. With all due respect to ethics reformers, a message of "ethics reform" will never win tough races. Need proof? Try reading Busby's "Ethics Reform Proposal" without falling asleep:
— Ban All Outside Relationships With Government Contractors
— Ban Members Advocating for Specific Businesses
— Eliminate Anonymous Appropriations
— Ban All Privately Funded Junkets
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Now try getting disinterested voters angry enough to vote on that message. I rest my case.
What are the issues that will win tough races? The answers are in the latest Gallup Poll, which asked "What one or two issues should be top priorities for the president and Congress to deal with at this time?"
Corruption came in #17 with 2% of the vote - that's even worse than I would have thought, and it explains Busby's defeat.
Here are the top 5 issues:
- 42% Situation in Iraq/war
- 29% Fuel/oil prices/lack of energy sources/the energy crisis
- 23% Immigration/illegal aliens
- 14% Economy in general
- 12% Poor health care/hospitals; high cost of health care
Democrats need to have winning messages on 4 of these 5 issues.
What is a winning message? One that can be easily communicated in an unmistakable bumper sticker, repeated ad nauseum by campaign volunteers, expounded day after day by talk show hosts, and hammered home with stark pictures in 30-second ads.
Bilbray had a winning message (for him) on immigration (#3). What was it? No G-D Amnesty - Build a G-D Wall from the Pacific to the Gulf. Obviously this is not a message that Democrats should adopt. But having seen the impact of this message on CA-50, how do we beat it? Only by having stronger messages on the two issues that rank higher than immigration - Iraq and Energy.
Iraq: We are about to hit the 2,500 milestone in U.S. soldiers killed. We have spent $400 billion and are well on our way to $1 trillion when you include lifetime veterans health costs and the increased price of oil resulting from Iraqi instability. Bush's super-hyped elections produced a divided sectarian government that cannot function, and horrendous violence has spiraled out of control. If we leave it to George Bush and the Republicans, Americans will continue to bleed lives and dollars in Iraq forever. This is unacceptable, and we have only one choice: Get Out of Iraq - NOW.
How? John Murtha called for a six-month withdrawal six months ago. John Kerry and Russ Feingold want troops removed by the end of 2006. Democratic candidates can simply declare that they will cut off all funds for the Iraq War except for an orderly withdrawal of troops.
Energy: Democrats love alternative energy, but Americans are getting hammered every time they fill up their gas tank. For the entire 8 years of the Clinton-Gore administration, the average price of gasoline was $1.15. This week, the average price is $2.89. What's a winning Democratic message on energy? Reduce Gas Prices - NOW.
How?
- Expose and punish price gougers. Republicans say they can't prove price gouging, but that's because they refuse to put oil company executives under oath. Democrats can promise to put oil executives under oath the day they are sworn in. They can also put all of the raw producer data on the Internet to let citizens do the hard forensic work that Bush's Energy Department refuses to do.
- Immediate enact a $100-per-MPG tax credit for car owners who trade in their gas guzzlers for more efficient cars.
- Open the strategic petroleum reserve.
Obviously I'm taking complicated problems and making them simple. But that's what Bilbray did with immigration: Build a Wall - NOW.
2. Republican big money makes a difference - so we must make sure that they run out of it.
Republicans spent $4.5 million to hold on to CA-50 by 4%. In 2004, Duke Cunningham spent only $1 million and beat Busby by 22%. If Republicans had only spent $1 million this time, Busby would have won.
Thanks to the tremendous work of the SwingStateProject.com and MyDD.com, Democrats are challenging Republicans in an unprecedented number of Congressional races. That means Republicans will have to spend a lot more money to defend seats that are normally considered "safe" - which means they will have less money to spend in the key swing districts.
The Republican fundraising strategy is utterly bizarre - they are sending George Bush on Air Force 1 to raise large sums at local fundraisers for candidates who don't even attend because they don't want to be seen with Bush!
We must find a jujitsu strategy to make an issue of the money Republican candidates are spending - money so tainted by its connection to Bush that Republican candidates won't even go to the fundraisers!
3. We need wedge issues of our own.
Republicans are united on immigration, guns, gay marriage, abortion, and taxes. As Bob Geiger points out, Republicans are devoting the month of June to two wedge issues intended to divide Democrats - gay marriage and flag burning. But there are plenty of issues that divide Republicans, and we need to drive wedges on those issues just as hard as Republicans do to us.
Out-of-Control National Debt: When President Clinton left office, he handed Bush a budget that was $200 billion in the black with a projected 10-year surplus of $5.6 trillion. Thanks to Bush's massive tax giveaways to multinational corporations and the rich, Republicans have already run deficits of $4 trillion and raised the debt ceiling four times. Bill Clinton inherited similar budget deficits from Bush's father and turned them into surpluses, so Democrats have an solid record of fiscal responsibility. We need to win the vote of every Republican who cares about the out-of-control national debt.
Big Brother Government: Ronald Reagan led Republicans into power by promising smaller government. George Bush betrayed the Reagan legacy by creating Big Brother: an alphabet soup of agencies from the FBI to the NSA that spend unlimited sums spying illegally on law-abiding Americans. We're living in Orwell's 1984 - Big Brother is Watching You. We need to win the vote of every Republican who opposes Big Brother Government.
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The Lessons From CA-50
I am a lifetime Democrat and I always vote the democratic ticket. In this year election, I will be voting for the party would address these issues: 1. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, 2. IRAQ AND 3. GASOLINE
I do not support the democratic stand on illegal immigrations. I will not vote for any candidate who supports this issue. I'm sorry, but democrats need to understand that all democrats do not support illegal immigration. We need to change our position on this issue and we need to do it NOW! We need to let America know where we stand on this issue. Most Americans do not support illegal immigration. We need to get tought on this issue and we need to do it now if we have any hopes of recapturing the Senate.
We do not need to be afraid of this issue. This is an American problem and we need to step up the plate. Stop worrying about hispanic votes and think about what is good for America. Illegal immigration is a mjor problem! We need to do this before the November elections.
You should really get out
You should really get out more often. Who are these Democrats who "support" illegal immigration? I don't know of any, and I doubt that you do either. And what is this "Democratic stand" that you think you know about?
What thinking Democrats support is the eradication of the problem at its roots -- the apparent immunity from prosecution for hiring illegal workers. Your seem to have fallen for the neoconservative ploy of making Americans believe that we are being invaded by impoverished people with criminal intent. We are not.
If the corporations, businesses, and wealthy individuals who hire these "illegals" at below minimum wages were to be prosecuted on a large scale, the problem would be solved. We don't need to build fences, and we certainly don't need a bunch of self-appointed "Minutemen" running around threatening to shoot people.
Sorry widowjordan, but it is you and those like you, who have been led down the "fear" path by the neocons, and not Democrats. Your anger and hatred should be directed at the Americans who are breaking the law, and not at people who have been enticed by criminals to make a very dangerous journey.
Three prominent individuals who are/were for illegal...
immigration: Pete Wilson(employer), Ariana Huffington(when she was married), and Linda Chavez(it cost her the secty of labor job). These are/were all Repugnants.
I understand that in Texas, one can hire illegal aliens for 2-3 bucks an hour. Many people do. They make the jobs available...and the people come to take them.
As both Bill and Jim have said, the laws are on the books to heavily fine and even lock up the imployers of illegals. Nothing has been done about enforcing the laws.
If the jobs are not available, then the people will not come. Very poor people, of whatever nation, will always try to get to a place where their personal standard of living is higher than it is now. We would all do the same if we lived in their shoes.
It is pointless to accuse the Dems of not following the laws presently on the books...the dems hold no power, chair no committees, have no power to bring witnesses into hearings. INstead of blaming Dems for this problem, you might want to contact Bill Frist, et al. The Repugs hold the power.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Louis Pasteur
widowjordan
Listen to Bill on this, he knows what he is talking about and can explain it better than me.
Yes, Democrats Need a Better Message to Win
Maybe I shouldn't say "better" but I agree about using the Gallop Poll (or whatever)to figure out the things people care about the most. Those subjects are: 1. Leaving Iraq and strengthening security at ports, borders,and within the U.S., 2. The cost of gas for our cars, 3. Illegal immigration. Democrat candidates really need to concentrate on these areas of distress for the American people. They need to say it simply so people will understand where this Party is coming from on these three issues. These issues cannot be allowed to fall to the bottom of the list. When we watch "Meet the Press" we need to hear talk about these issues and how they can be fixed. If the major news stations won't talk about it, maybe talk show hosts should start bringing up these issues and get their audiences involved. Maybe pointing out how individual live's are effected by these issues. By now there may be many people with a relative who either has been or is in Iraq. You can't tell me that they don't feel the pain of this problem by now in one way or another.
For example,I have a cousin in the Marines who was one of the first groups over there. He has two friends who were also in Iraq but just came back. One friend is a deputy sheriff in L.A. (a Marine) who accidently shot and killed his other friend one night. It was devasting. I'm sure there are psychological problems going on with many troops coming back from there. This is one example of why we can't allow this war to go on with no end in sight. The cost of this war will be felt for a very long time in more ways than one.
Illegal immigration has effected my life in some ways. When we lived in San Diego there was a period of time where suddenly robberies were starting up in our once quiet neighborhood by the ocean. There is a roller coaster of robberies that go on there off and on when illegal immigrants start pouring in, more in some years than other years. That was 30 years ago! A Mexican immigrant tried to climb through our window one night! I don't think he arrived to say "hello". Shortly before that the people who lived behind us had their house robbed. San Diego is less than 1/2 hour from the border. I would think that something should be done about the illegal immigration. After all it is illegal! Drugs are smuggled in all the time etc. How cute is it to see an illegal immigrant trying to slide across the border with an Oakland Raiders baseball cap on? Is he wearing it to make a fashion statement or is he part of a gang? The people coming over that border are not just families with children. There is also a drug and gang issue in this problem.
Then we can say that the cost of gas is effecting all of us who drive cars. Does the average American want to hear a politician talk about the latest technology, in detail, to replace gas? Or do they want to hear solutions how to get the price down? In the meantime we can be inventing new ways to replace gas, but for now just tell the people how the cost will go down or NOT. I think the people want to know the truth about it all. What does it mean for an average person's pocketbook and how can they deal with this problem?
The Democratic Party hopefully will stay on point and never give up these issues. They are the main ones.
We need to make a
We need to make a distinction between "criminals," and illegal workers coming across the border. The criminals have been crossing the border -- in both directions -- since there was a border. This is not unique to the USA, and is a problem wherever two countries share a common boundry (see Europe).
Illegal workers would not be here, nor take the risks attached to the dangerous journey across the border, if American employers did not hire them. To use an NRA argument, we already have laws on the books to prevent the hiring of illegal workers, but they are not being enforced. The landscape company that hires them, the corporation (WalMart?) that hires them, and the wealthy families that hire them as virtual slaves, are the real cause of the problem. These American criminals are also the cause of many deaths, rapes, and other misery visited on these impoverished victims by the ruthless coyote middlemen who supply "patriotic" Americans with cheap labor.
So before we put up fences, and recognize an entire class of people as "illegal," let's also recognize that the real enemy we face is simply greed by Americans posing as patriots, who choose to ignore the law -- much like their hero Dubya.
I still only have smoke and
I still only have smoke and steam Bill. I'm glad your pen is working ;)
It's a beautiful day in
It's a beautiful day in Hawaii, and it would take a tsunami to bring me down...;-)
Then I can repeat that when
Then I can repeat that when grassroots Dems act as Reps hoping for Dem type results I develop a coolant leak.
Especially because that is all the separates the two parties: Unity of disparate humans allowing for progress for all.
All for one
And
One for all.
Jim, I share your pain, but
Jim, I share your pain, but I refuse to allow a few assholes to rain on my parade. I continue to believe that true Americans, regardless of political affiliation, can not be repeatedly lied to and deceived without fighting back.
I can not single-handedly save people from themselves, but I CAN put my trust in them. Surely you and I (and the other members of Democrats.com) can not be described as having extremist views on what it means to be American Liberal Democratic patriots with Conservative fiscal leanings. I need to believe that a great percentage of Middle Americans are cut from the same cloth.
Agreed.
I would add:
Dems need to be called on it when they break ranks with fellow humans in order to get ahead WHILE also hoping those same humans do not break ranks with them when their ox is about to be gored.
This is the path the Right has run with and they have claimed nearly everybody’s pot of gold: Skyrocketing energy prices, historic surplus turned to a historic deficit, lousy prices in many sectors, no raise in decades for the majority, etc.
Democrats are about helping the downtrodden out of love AND sanity. If grassroots Dems continue to cut loose those they deem below them they risk their own livelihood.
Sue Nami
Submarine USS Wahoo ss238
We need her to run for congress and sweep all of the
Republicans out to sea.......................
Have a pig luau for me Maui Bill!!!
My client found a house for rent over there, and is moving
next week!!! More $$$ for me!!
As luau performers say to
As luau performers say to tourists in Hawaii, "No clap -- throw money!"
Bill
Yours is the exact argument I put forth on immigration, spoken more eloquently, and I believe we should take that stance as an issue. I also believe we must find a way to make the Repugs pay for these massive hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts for the rich and corporate welfare. Given the performances by government during crises like Katrina, the eroding of our infrastructure, and other funding problems, we must make them answer for all these huge tax cuts for the wealthy. The national debt is another issue we simply must put foward, that ties in with the huge tax breaks. Every child born in this country now automatically owes $28,000 to the debt. Fiscal responsibility simply must be on the list, because the administration and Congress have such a miserable track record. We have to resurrect things like the Bankrupcy and TORT reform bills and pound that home. Of course we have to come up with a viable, intelligent plan for Iraq, and get ALL Democrats behind it. If we can't use corruption, how about plain old incompetence? There has been plenty of that. We have to push alternative fuels extremely hard too. The main thing, and you will probably agree with me Bill, is that Democrats MUST present their Progressive ideas and be proud of them. Every candidate everywhere needs to put their Democratic vision foward and not run from their ideals or beliefs because they think they have to be more "Conservative". This is the year we need to rediscover what it is to be Democrats and not shy away from the traditional values that has moulded our party into what it is!!!! You know I was working on a campain in the primaries for a while. While we fell short, the one thing we most wanted to do was have a campaign that was proud of being part of the Democratic Party and not shy away from shouting our ideals and views out for everyone to hear. That is the main thing I hope that all the wonderful Democrats that do have the opportunity to represent this party in the fall will do- Run as Democrats and be DAMN PROUD OF IT!!!!!
Rich, it's good to see you
Rich, it's good to see you back in good spirits and fighting condition...;-)
I totally agree with your take on using the neocons' divisive issues against them, and speaking out loudly and clearly about matters that matter.
What a lot of Americans do not understand (because they have never been exposed to it) is that the "Black Market" in other parts of the world exists because of borders, and not in spite of them. A recent example was the rush for Canadian-supplied cigarettes as a result of the high "sin taxes" imposed in the US. Prohibition was another good example.
The "illegal" job situation is no different. When employers create a market for below-minimum-wage employees who have no costly rights, representation, or expectations of benefits, there are Black Marketeers who will fill the need. They recruit potential workers in the small villages and towns in Mexico and other SA countries, and fill them with hope and expectations of wealth. It is a very lucrative business. It is not that much different from the drug business or prostitution, in that the "product" is often sacrificed to avoid being caught. There are always more where they came from, so no big deal.
War on terror? Terror is a tactic used by criminals with extremist goals and can not be defeated -- only the criminals can be defeated = Terror Black Market.
War on drugs? Drugs are inert, and have no effect on society until sold by criminals to willing buyers = Drugs Black Market.
War on "illegal immigration?" The immigrant workers, like drugs, are a commodity sold by criminals to willing buyers (employers) = Human Trafficking Black Market.
Common denominator? Criminals: both the sellers AND the buyers. Solution? Arrest and prosecute the criminals. Declaring a meaningless war on the tactics or the "product" is a ploy, and as a very wise member of Democrats.com points out, is equivalent to: "Look! A shiny object!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Market
I'm too livid to respond to this thread.
I tried several times.
-Grass roots Democrats deserve IRAQ.
-They deserve $4/gallon gas prices.
-They deserver their fear of Illegal Immigrants.
-etc.
WHEN
-They continue to follow the same Conservative "solutions" that brought them these ills in the first place!
Moveon.org Estimates Busby had 9-1 lead among Indy voters
Moveon.org press release excerpt:
"A quick analysis of the numbers demonstrates how profound the shift is. Of all primary voters in that district yesterday, 56.5 percent were GOP primary voters, yet Bilbray only ended up taking 49.48 percent of the special election vote. In the special election, Bilbray's vote total was 58,566. That exceeds the total of all GOP primary votes cast by only 1,081. On the other hand, Busby got 53,598 votes in the special, which exceeds the total number of votes cast in the Democratic primary by nearly 9,369. It's morning-after, back-of-the-envelope math, but it appears either Busby won Independents nine to one or wooed a substantial number of Republicans."
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=67114
Illegal Immigrants
Of course who the hell cares about cheaper goods when your own income has been super proportionately decreased!
Is there a Democratic Solution to this mess that does not rely on knee jerk conservative notions which continually reduce the amount of cash available to the bottom 90%.
YES!
solution
Submarine USS Wahoo ss238
If scientists would work cheaper then products would be cheaper
I am sorry, I think all scientists should have their wages
cut, no 401K, no medical, and deported for their subversive
work under the microscope, they are evil and should not believe
in evolution....................................
Oh Hi Jim, how is life?!!!!! hahahaha
---------------------------------------------------
"In the course of centuries, Man has devoured the Earth itself. The Machine Age has dried up the seas of oil. Industry has consumed the heartlands of coal. The Atomic Age has plundered the rare elements-uranium, cobalt, plutonium-leaving behind worthless deposits of lead and ashes. Starvation is at hand. Only here, in the void of space, is there a new source of atomic power. Above us, in the debris of the solar system, in the meteorites and asteroids, are the materials needed to drive the reactors. Yet in their distant, silent orbits, these chunks of matter are beyond the reach of Man, beyond the reach of human hands... but not beyond the reach of human minds.
;)
All poets will now be paid with goats, herbs, and small iron rods.
A Democratic Plan:
-Illegal Immigration should end.
-It is fine for citizens to use any reasonable means to rid a neighborhood of a thug, including making use of their citizen status.
-In a world where Republicans pounce on the differences between us so as to fracture voting blocks and gain massive cash for monopolies (either explicit or implicit) a broader perspective must be advanced.
Now that the law has been shown respect, the prices of goods and services will go UP, leaving less for the bottom 90%.
In order to counter the increased prices due to ridding the Nation of cheap labor, additional reforms will be necessary. Restoring the Progressive Income Tax as a monopoly busting, middle class creation tool, can go a long way towards this.
I will be happy to take on all comers. Be warned however that nearly every American is a pure Commie by right wing logic, including Rush and Coulter themselves.
PatriotMom and widowjordan
Patriot Mom,
Please see my other posts on this thread and comment.
If people like you and I can’t get on the same page it does not bode well for this nation.
Thanks,
Jim
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Widowjordan,
I would ask the same but I worry more about your posts because you seem to have believed what the Right tells you about Liberals. The Right caused this. They now want their cake (cheap labor) and want to eat it too (racism giving them new votes and new life). All this after they have decimated so many.
Anyway I would appreaciate it if you would take some time to think a second time and give me your feedback.
Thankyou,
Jim
Why are Democrat politicians killing labor?
In many ways agree with a lot of your prior posts, but I also find common ground with Patriotmom and Widowjordan. Why would ANY self-described Democratic politician publicly state they are in favor of the flawed amnesty bill (i.e. Ted Kennedy). I was raised to believe that the Democratic party was the party for the working class (of which I am a proud member), and yet I am hearing the leaders of my party pandering to corporations and stating on TV that they are going to back the anti-labor illegal immgrant amnesty bill. It makes me sick! If Busby had been heard to say in public that she was supporting living wages for all, fining employers of illegal immigrants so we could all get a decently priced piece of the pie she might have won! (And it might have helped if she wasn't heard stating that "you didn't need papers to vote"). When is my party goign to return to its roots - protecting the working men and women of this country, protecting our pensions, our health care and working for a better future. When ar ethey going to stop rolling over and doing whatever the Republicans ask them to? When will they grow a pair?
Full response to come.
don't wait
As a member of the working class on the E. Coast I have to go to bed and go to work in the morning.
I would like to see us return to sustainable living wages in this country. Every illegal immigrant that works for $3 an hour hurts my chances of getting a raise, and depresses wages generally. Yes, we would all have to pay more for produce, housing etc but the proces are being kept artificially low by low wage illegal immigrants. Also as a U.S. citzen who is married to a legal immigrant I know exactly how many hoops we had to jump through, and I resent others trying to take advantage of this country.
The devil is in the details.
I already noted I shared your concern about wages (before you even stated it) by noting above:
"Of course who the hell cares about cheaper goods when your own income has been super proportionately decreased!"
I then went on to propose a solution.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
As to your other concern:
The devil is in the details. We can’t work through them quickly here so lets look more generally at the concept of an Amnesty Bill.
As long as the concerns of my previous posts are followed and Illegal Immigration is stemmed AND the bad effects of such are stopped THEN the question of:
“What to do with those who are here already” can be addressed.
We can:
1) Do something that respects an overarching sense of morality or ethics with respect to Americans.
2) Do something that costs the LEAST while obeying a sense of morality or ethics that respects fellow Human beings.
I believe that some Amnesty Bills address number 2. They cost the least (remember that policing cost money) and they respect humans who have spent the last decade working for slave wages so that Americans could live better. They respect too the panic they are now in after having formed attachments and family ties within America. More importantly it re-enforces what Democrats as a Party have forgotten: we must stand together for gains for all EVEN when, in a particular election cycle we do not get ours.
Here is the thing though:
Republicans are Aristocrats through and through. They concentrate wealth. They are readying themselves to concentrate more wealth in the hands of a few family lines by getting rid of the Estate Tax. No level playing field can exist while Old Money abounds. Anyone starting off with a million bucks is going to kick the ass of someone starting off with nothing even if the latter has the potential to be a far greater economic engine. Americans can no longer afford zero growth Old Money Conservatism.
Democrats have been afflicted with Aristocrats in our own party! In particular through the DLC. You SHOULD disagree with me if my bottom line is that of the DLC. I am maneuvering through that ilk to gain far more for the vast majority but the rub is unity amongst a the vast majority of voters.
I am arguing that there is more cash to be gained by eliminating the Illegal Immigrant problem as I propose AND remaining sensitive to gaining crumbs for those that got in before the door closed. If economic groups fracture the vast majority lose. This would not be the case if a vast portion of the Nation were not already broken off from the remainder as in the Religious Right.
Don't assume you work more
Don't assume you work more hours than I do.
We have NOT yet come to a point of disagreement because you have not gotten what I have said.
Illegal Immigrants suppress wages.
Not the whole story!
Conservatism's worship of "business" gave employers the room to F them over as well as fellow Americans by tempting in fellow peasants from another land.
I have already presented you with how to stop that WITHOUT costing you even more cash.
When they are gone you will be in far worse shape IF nothing has been done about the climate that allowed for them unless of course you are a conservative that believes the "free" market will drive employers to compete rather than simply collude by passing their new costs on to you.
That climate is one in which Democrats fracture at each income range and do not look out for each other.
Flan: Again you are ranting about low wages in your state...
Other states have higher minimum wages. Even a few cities have raised the minimum wage for themselves and their people.
You are from one of the most screwed up states in the union. One of the most dishonest. One that is incapable of holding a fair and regulated election...not just once, but the last three elections. This one coming up in November will undoubtedly be your 4th illegal election. What have you done to correct the situation?
Washington State: min wage: $7.67/hr
Oregon: min wage: $7.50/ht
Santa Cruz, CA: min wage: $10.00/hr
Florida: min wage: $5.15/hr.
What is your problem?
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Louis Pasteur
Are you referring to
Are you referring to yourself when you talk about "doing whatever the Republicans ask?" That's what it sounds like to me.
The neocons ask you to be afraid, and you are. The neocons want you to look the other way while THEY break the law, and you do. The neocons want you to blame Mexicans because American companies and wealthy individuals provide illegal jobs, and you do. In fact, you are doing everything that they ask of you, right down to spewing xenophobic nonsense.
When will supposedly otherwise sane and thinking people like you understand that you are being manipulated? When will you recognize the problem for what it really is -- Americans breaking the law by hiring illegal workers?
No, you would rather rant and rave at impoverished people trying to better themselves, than to admit that by buying from Wal Mart YOU are a part of the problem. You want to rant and rave about something that may solve the problem? Ask your local law enforcement/FBI offices to go to every employer in your town and check their I-9 Forms against their employees and payroll.
And one last thing as pointed out by Ginch: Democrats are NOT in power in ANY of the three branches of gevernment! How in the hell can you accuse us of "rolling over," when we are being held hostage by a cabal of corporate shills? Think, damnit -- think!
don't rant at me you don't know me
I would rather cut off my own right foot than shop at Wal-Mart! Don't assume you know anything about others from reading one paragraph. I live in Florida, we are overwhelmed with Guatemalans and Mexicans. I am trilingual. I don't profit from other people's misery. I do not blame people for wanting to better themselves, I blame large corporations (i.e. WalMart the evil empire) from profiting by their cheap labor. )And whatever happende to "Buy American"?) I blame this country for not policing: 1) our borders 2) employers.
No, I don't know what to do about the ones already here but blanket amnesty is NOT NOT the answer! I well remember the last amnesty in the mid 80's Florida was swamped by Central Americans then. Most of whom have STILL not assimilated. I could take you to Little Nicaragua, Little El Salvador etc. I more than anyone know how hard it is to be an adult learner of another language, but if I moved to Mexico or Honduras, I would not expect the government to cater to me by printing everything in English!
Here you are allowed to take the driver license test in: English, Spanish or Creole French, yet all advisory signs, directionals, speed limits etc are in English. I sincerely hope we don't start putting up sign in 3 languages. Many people I know used to make a living here and are now forced to work 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet.
And my one job requires me to awaken at 5 am and it is now 11:30 so good night and sleep well, see you tomorrow!
One good rant deserves
One good rant deserves another. When you try to place the blame on Democrats for the so-called "illegal immigration" problem, you are indeed falling for the neocon bullshit.
Amnesty is not at issue here. There have been no laws passed that will allow a general amnesty, and I seriously doubt that there ever will be a total amnesty.
What is at issue here is that the "blame" is being placed on the wrong group. In Florida, how many illegal nannies, gardeners, and housemaids are employed by the wealthy "snowbirds?" Multiply that number by thousands of illegal employers all over the country, and pretty soon we are talking about a substantial sub-culture of overlooked criminals dealing in illegal workers. Sound a bit like the drug problem?
Rant? You ain't heard nothin' yet...
I've given up sleep.
I've given up sleep.
By the way Democrats on this
By the way Democrats on this blog have already allowed for LOCAL problems with Illegal Immigration. The danger to this Nation however comes from local concerns mixing with a National dialogue that has AGAIN moved to the damned WORKER being responsible for this mess. We are cutting our own throats AGAIN. Just watch.
Also how much more can a Democrat give you? Fixing the problem without breaking the bank. Allowing for local concerns while creating the kind of Democratic environment necessary to get cash to the majority after cheap labor has left and Republicans attempt to fill that void by raising prices.
That last crack about sleep
That last crack about sleep was meant to imply that the rest of us don’t work in the way that you do, and probably can’t understand your worry about wages.
First don’t assume anything about how hard we work, the number of hours, the number of jobs, the amount of volunteer work, etc. Second we are claiming that you are about to screw yourself and others by lowering your income still further.
-We are not arguing that you should be ever so sweat to poor Illegal Immigrants.
-We are arguing that you should affix blame where it belongs.
-We are arguing that if you have a heart you should give a nod to some fellow peasants by paying their situation at least lip service.
-We are arguing that if you do not have a heart you should still give a nod toward some fellow peasants because the vast majority of professions suffer when we train ourselves to fracture.
First argue with Democrats on this site and then all of us will take this to the broader Democratic Party. Don't hear their voices when you speak to us.
Jim
We just can't seem to convince people the problem is the DEMAND!!!! Thats like only busting junkies and no dealers to cure the drug problem!!!!
Hi Rich, I'm giving myself
Hi Rich,
I'm giving myself the next 8 minutes to give up and have a snack!
We reap what we sow. If we can't hold together we deserve the crap that comes down the pike.
Amazing the Right screwed every damned thing they touched this last half decade and yet still got an issue to profit from. They gained cash by exploiting Illegal Immigrants and now they’ll gain votes by bashing them. With those votes I am guessing they will do what they always do: gain yet more cash from the majority.
Jim
Sounds like a personal problem
Your state needs to take care of its own borders. We can't solve everything at the federal level and quite frankly there are other, much larger considerations to be made at the national level in this post 9/11 era.
IMHO, this is a states rights issue and shouldn't have ever been introduced for national debate and the only reason it was, is that there are stupid people out there who think that keeping lettuce pickers out of the US somehow makes us safer because they see anyone with brown skin as being a terrorist thanks to the division caused in the country since the GOP took control.
I think the national debate should be about keeping our ports, airports and borders safe from terrorists like bin Laden, and the state debate should be about what you should do about your illegals.
We all know that's not going to happen and we all know why, don't we? It's because illegals contribute to your state's economy and your politicians pander to them because of that - so you think the rest of us should do what your state representatives don't have the guts to do and that's to stop collecting taxes/benefiting from the slave labor from/of what they call 'illegals.'
Look! A shiny object! That's all this is about. Well, that and racism, IMHO. If your state can give me George W. Bush for president, it can patrol its own damned borders.
Sick and tired of War and Fleece, yet? Vote democrat!
Flan...read the last line of your rant...
"When will they grow a pair?"
When people like you, like me, like Bill and all the others here on this and other sites force them to. And, not one minute before.
The other problem is that these 'tame' DLC Dems are elected by their own people in their own state.
For example: Why is Nelson still in office in your state? Care to answer that one? Why is Katherine Harris in the congress--from your state? Why has your state not cleaned up it's voting problems. Sheesh, you've had 6 years.
You don't mention any of this, but you do take on Kennedy.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Louis Pasteur
Wow, the pen sure is
Wow, the pen sure is mightier than the sword! It just goes to show that when trying to write how I feel about an issue it comes out sounding a little harsh :) I sure don't want a wall built on our borders and I never said I did. I said that with all the illegal immigrants coming over the border, and some of them do cause problems, we do need to think about this. We have had this has an issue for well over the 30 years that I have known about it having grown up in southern California and now living up in central California.
Yes, there are borders everywhere and even Europe has borders with people coming over them. Bush knows he touched a sensitive issue and that is why he brought it up. He always has the same plan, to put up a smoke screen, so people start forgetting the real issues. But that doesn't make the streams of illegal immigrants any less of a problem. If there will be thousands more coming shouldn't we plan for this, after all it isn't 1950 anymore when less people were living here.
My main point is that there are way more people coming here from Mexico than in the 1950's. They come through the border not only from Mexico, but from other countries as well. Logic tells us that without any order to this process we could very well have problems in the future (with a forecast of 40 million people entering in the future) and that is all I'm going to say about it. Previously,I attempted to give my own small story about this issue as an example of human interest but it seems people thought I must be a Republican in disguise. I do tend to be toward the middle of the Dem side but I'm not a fascist or anything (a joke).
I couldn't agree with you more about cheap labor at Wal Mart. I don't shop there at all because of that issue. My husband knows full well what cheap labor has caused because he is in the IT high tech industry and his job has huge competition overseas. He's been displaced because of it several times! I've been a life-long Democrat and my husband is a Republican. He is definitely not on the far right. In fact he is the one ranting about the cheap labor at Wal-Mart and how Wal-Mart should be put out of business, about Bush lies, Iraq war, high budget deficit, low wages, etc.
Believe me we are on the same page, Jim. I was very disappointed that John Kerry lost the bid for presidency and I was one of the first people to throw out the question on this website "Who should we think about for President in 2008"? That question brought out many thoughts about getting Hilary Clinton to run for President. Nowdays I think Al Gore might be a great consideration also.
The point that I was trying to make earlier is that Democrats need to find the three points that are most important to the people from looking at the Gallop Polls. Then stick to them like glue until November. Don't give up on it, don't get sidetracked, just stick to these three issues. I have faith in the American people that they will finally see the issues for what they are and do the right thing by voting. But just don't start boring them with things they don't understand or don't care about. The American people are just trying to live day by day and go about their business or vacation in Hawaii, whatever. Isn't is just this simple that we give our tax money to them to do the job of securing the nation and provide for the welfare of the people? People do come first in the Democratic Party. There are probably more of my type out there (middle of the road Dem)so it pays to figure out how to deal with them also. In other words, don't make quick judgements without asking questions.
Thanks for the response
Thanks for the response PatriotMom.
Stay tuned and track posts. Leaders are driven by the grassroots at times.
You might like to give some feedback here:
http://www.democrats.com/node/7018
as it suggests a very simple way in which the vast majority of professions can gain an increase while also providing a bit of the ethics for it. In addition it does not rely on Liberal Compassion so much as common sense LOST ;)
Bush & Fox jobs for oil
The buzzzzz is that Bush has convinced Vincente Fox to allow American oil cos to exploit Mexican oil in exchange Bush will let Mexican workers stay here with work cards. That makes it a win win for bush and for Fox. American corps get cheep labor at almost slave conditions (no health care, no vacation pay, no sick days, can fire without cause)and the bush chaney oil buddies get the rights to all that Mexican oil.
I was thinking about how divided our nation is these days and how different it was a few years ago. We didn't like Bush Sr. but he didn't cause this kind of division in the country. It seems to me that it started when the RRW republicans went after Bill Clinton like mad dogs. They took over the congress and things started to go south. Then they went power mad and forced bush on us by every means they could get away with. I don't know about others but for me when their goones started beating on the doors and walls in Miami during the vote count I got very angry and very frustrated that those counting ran out like little girls.
Now the country is split by a Grand Canyon of anger and frustration. I have been around a long time and spent much of my life around politics and I have never seen anything like what I see now, even the Viet Nam crisis.
Corporations are sending our good jobs off shore, leaving well qualified people feeling helpless and angry. The building trades are hiring illegal Mexicans and others who will work for lower wages than union workers. It is really bush and the GOP and the corporate muggers that we should direct our anger toward, not those who are starving in Mexico and are desperate enough to leave their families and go through the riggers of hell to get here in the hope of a job.
It is corperatization of our nation and their take over of our government that is our enemy.
"A close look at how the U.S. government is presently run reveals a veritable plutocracy in which corporations enjoy the same rights as citizens. Only the former has much greater buying power thus undue influence on government policies and decision-making."
. ~ Doreen Miller
The Plot thickens.
I think the divide opened in 2 places:
1) Religion in Government as if there was a Religion called Religion. (In other words, just watch what people do when they realize their Religion is not the one Republicans wish to advanced: Fundamentalism.)
2) In a ever widening spiral downward between each Economic rung of the ladder instead of the vast majority of professions/job titles looking out for each other over Monopolies (either explicit or implicit.)
I hope we humans can muddle through before the last of the scape goats modern Republicans raise up as targets are destroyed and money is concentrated in the hands of the few and Government Religion in the hands of the Fundamentalists.
I wonder if even Fundamentalists understand that there will be “right” and “wrong” types of Fundamentalism as quickly as the American Experiment's respectful neutral Government falls?
I think we can make a safe bet
I think we can make a safe bet that they haven't thought about it that deeply. Joe average seems to believe that he is on the right side and as long as he has Jesus nothing bad could ever happen to him or his beliefs. Little does Joe know it is already happening and not just on a small scale . When the AF Academy has to be taken to court to make them stop endorsing religious harrassment, by evangelicals, of cadets who belong to mainstream religions, things are already getting out of hand.
In a time of deception telling the truth is a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell
Extreme “Moderates”
This is what some folks are doing without realizing it:
1) They are identifying themselves with the “middle” class by choosing the middle 50% on the income scale.
2) They have absorbed via osmosis the idea that Poor Bums have their money and that rich folks can’t be bums.
Please take in the numbers below.
With the Religious Right in play suppressing wages, allowing insane energy prices, removing Democrat gained perks, etc by voting for Republicans if they even suggest something religious, we do not have the luxury of beating on those below us EVEN if we want to. It also pegs one as insane as there is no money there.
Illegal Immigrants suppress income and so does Conservatism. The solution will not be found in Conservatism.
It will be found by noting that the vast majority (90% make $100,000 a year and less) are a natural voting block and it should not be fractured.
go ahead pick on me i can take it
Just because I'm from Florida does not give everyone the right to pick on me. And I would like to know how I am expected to fix the stolen election problem single handedly? What have I done? I have voted and PRAYED that my vote was counted and not changed! Why do you think Black Box Voting has spent so much time here? And if my vote isn't being counted, how am I supposed to fix that, short of moving elsewhere? I wish I had the money to move to Oregon with it's $7+ wages but I don't! And don't blame me for Katherine Harris, I don't live in the district that elected her (thank goodness)! I live in the most heavily Republican county in this state, I am surrounded by selfish Republican snowbirds who, yes hire illegal aliens to mow their lawns, clean their houses and cook for them and if you don't think that has a direct verifiable effect on MY wages, think again! I speak Spanish by choice, I resent HAVING to speak it in stores so I can get service.
Me, me, me, poor me. Sigh...
Me, me, me, poor me. Sigh...
Oy vey.
We have noted that Illegal Immigrants and Republican suppress wages BUT that is not the end of the story. Are you being coy?
You were called on fixing Florida because you were attacking in the same way.
You need to answer as to why
You really need to answer as to why you AGAIN state:
“if you don't think that has a direct verifiable effect on MY wages, think again!”
When this has been granted, AND elaborated on, time and time again, on this thread and others.
You will lose in the wallet if this continues.
and my point is and continues to be...
that the presence of illegal immigrants in your community will automatically drive down wages. Now it's the construction industry, especially in Florida, Chicago, New York, California, etc. etc. etc. Also here in Florida, the trucking and haulage industry. Is your industry/business next? Maybe Vincente Fox could do more in his own country to better the lives of his citizens, then they wouldn't feel the need to flood across the border. Look at Costa Rica, stable, democratic, highest literacy rate in Central America, you don't see millions of Costa Ricans rushing to the U.S. And what's with all the outsourcing, where large U.S. companies build maquiladoras in Mexico instead of hiring Americans in America.
And my other point was missed as well - what's up with our party? Why so many Dems in Congress voting for this Republican crap (I'm still mad over the Iraq vote).
I was trying to apply constructive criticism to my party, I would like to see it get stronger and return to its roots, i.e. protecting the working class, not pandering to corporations who in profiting from cheap labor are depressing wages!